Joe Dunaway 0:02

Welcome to the VICI Code, where we unlock real stories of small business owners who've battled chaos, crushed out, and conquered their challenges. Faith, family, and finances. No fluff, just raw, honest conversations that decode the path to victory. One story at a time. What is up? Thank you for joining us today as we explore our latest purpose-driven journey, the retention revolution, where we learn about scaling without the burnout, how to use AI to build a retention engine that stops silent churn, why your focus should shift from acquisition to customer relationships, and the non-negotiable personal systems required to lead a full tilt without losing yourself. We obsession over acquiring new customers, but we stay silent when they silently drift. Away, the silent churn is the silent killer of every high-growth business. What if you could catch that exit before it happens? Using AI as your co-pilot. The Alicia Eshmail, a 10-year veteran of brand building and systems design, founder of Road Coffee Company, and now the founder of Latch AI, a platform designed to save founder-led businesses from the trap of customer loss and personal burnout. Alicia and I met through a mutual friend, previous guest, and fellow elite badass Kelly Jadell. She bridges the gap between the grind culture of scaling, a startup, and the sustainability culture required to lead for the long haul. Her five tanks framework aligns perfectly with the Vici code ethos, making her an ideal conversation that balances hard-nosed business metrics of retention AI and high performance personal stewardship. Today we are exploring the architecture of retention. How do you scale your revenue without sacrificing your time or your health? As always, we will filter Alicia's journey through the Vici pillars: faith, family, fitness, and finance. Alicia, always great to have one of Dan Martell's elite members as a guest. And I can already see why Kelly introduced us. Welcome to the show.

Alisha Esmail 2:20

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and I'm excited to get into this with you.

Joe Dunaway 2:25

And this is a unique moment where we haven't had any retention specialists. I mean, it's it's a churn, is a concept that we talk about, but you specialize in this. So I want to jump right in. And you went from scaling a national coffee brand with deep direct trade supply chains to building an AI native retention engine. What was the breaking point at Road Coffee that made you realize that chaotic growth, if left unmanaged, was a liability, not an asset?

Alisha Esmail 2:56

Honestly, it goes back to this pinnacle point for me where things were going really good in our company. We were growing, we were profitable, we had already set up multiple streamlined supply chains, and our micro loan program was just getting off the ground. Had already had some like cool awards and recognition as well. And I was sitting at the dinner table with my family. And I got I did the thing, I checked, I checked my phone at the dinner table, and I got one of those dreaded emails where our largest client at the time said decided to go in a different direction. Yikes. And my gut sank. It was they were 50% bigger than any of our other clients at the time. And I was freaking out. I had to excuse myself from the dinner table. And I, if you're, you know, the founders that are listening, business owners, they've had that moment where like you think things are good with one client, and all of a sudden they're not. And so it kind of hit me if I wanted to build a successful company in coffee, which is one of the most saturated markets in the world, I had no choice but to become a retention expert. And that's exactly what I did. So I started reading all the books, listening to all the podcasts, hiring coaches, and we ended up tripling our retention, winning that customer back who's still a customer with uh the coffee company to this date, which is pretty exciting, and ended up building a system that helps us grow month over month through expansion revenue. So it was quite the quite the journey.

Joe Dunaway 4:34

So, like any entrepreneurship, you saw a problem and you created a solution. And here you are with Latch AI. That's amazing. And that's just the true spirit of being an entrepreneur. So I appreciate that that story. Uh, you say the biggest threat to a business isn't competition, it's silence. For the business owner listening, how can they distinguish between a quiet customer and a churning customer before it's too late?

Alisha Esmail 5:02

You know, that's a great question. I think it's one we forget about because we assume if the client says nothing, they're good, right? Like no news is good news. What I've come to learn is no news is actually bad news. We assume that clients are good, but a lot of times they they want to feel seen, they want to feel heard. And of course, there are some clients that, you know, you don't need to check in with them as often. They're Gucci, they're they're in the pocket, as I like to say. But a lot of times that's silence is where clients start to slowly drift, you know, and then they have a new neighbor next door that maybe is an accountant, or you know, then they start to build a relationship with them, or they see it, you know, a meta-ad or an Instagram reel promoting a different business. If that relationship isn't connected and intact and their needs aren't met, you're gonna get that similar email that lands in the same place of decided to go in a different direction.

Joe Dunaway 6:03

Yeah, it happens. And you're already making me think I'm like, man, we we definitely got to get out our our email. It's not automated yet, but we're working on it. But you know, we we don't want clients to just feel like it's transactional, right? Because it's not to us, but sometimes we can kind of get in our own way and you know, forget to check in. How does Latch AI specifically automate the human connection that founders think they need to do manually?

Alisha Esmail 6:30

So, what I like to say is we're not taking that special human stickiness out of the equation. We're taking all of the other stuff out of the way and off your plate so that you can focus on the things that matter. Because most founders love the relationships. That's often why they're in business. And it's often why people want to work with them. So, what Latch does is we connect to the tools you're already using. It could be your CRM, your, you know, your Stripe, your QuickBooks, your calendar, wherever your customer data lives, we bring that fragmented data together. And I say fragmented because it's typically living in multiple places, we run it through our Latch system and we're continuously monitoring for you, you know, what clients are at risk, who's slipping, who's expansion ready, and who's stable. And it's through that then we're able to help you create the exact follow-up for that specific person. So if John Smith is starting to slip, the message to him that we create for you is going to be completely different than Sally Joe, who runs a different company because each person is unique and human. But here's the cool part is everything is written in your tone and voice, and latch is dialed in for you when we onboard you. So it's not like we're just sending them random messages, we're sending them the message that you would want to send them, but you have 18 million things you're trying to do that day, and this just helps you stay on top of it.

Joe Dunaway 8:07

I love it. I would I would imagine it must read your emails in order to get the the feeling and the tone of everything. And it just makes so much sense. And it just, you know, it's it's still a reminder that like, you know, these these clients matter to us, you know, and you know, not you know, getting that message and maybe it's been crafted by you know your voice, um, it's still better than saying nothing and feeling like, oh, like I don't want to automate this. So um that totally makes sense. Um, let's get into the buyback zone of genius. In the finance pillar, acquisition is expensive and retention is profitable. Why do so many founders stay trapped in the acquisition cycle?

Alisha Esmail 8:58

Okay, do you want my honest answer, Joe?

Joe Dunaway 9:01

I need it.

Alisha Esmail 9:02

So I have talked to hundreds of founders and business owners over the last five months, and one thing I've seen again and again that really surprised me is there's almost this level of self-sabotage that exists. You know, businesses know it's seven times cheaper to keep a current customer than to add a new one. Yet they give about five minutes of airtime to retention and expansion revenue. And I think it goes back to that newness that we love, right? As entrepreneurs, we love the next thing and the new thing. And when we're just focused on new clients, I think it feeds that a little bit. Whereas retention's a little boring. And to be honest, at first I was like, do I really want to build a whole company around this boring topic? But as you know, boring is where the money's made.

Joe Dunaway 9:59

100%. Yeah. And honestly, I'm sure some people would agree with you, but I actually I actually enjoyed the part of like checking in with clients and and seeing how they're doing. And oh, you have a baby, how did that go? And you know, all it's and it's definitely like important for tax planning purposes. Um, but again, I I mentioned before we we we jumped on, you know, we're like 18 months in, and you know, definitely growing revenue is important, but I think it's important to give both sides of that equation attention. You know, you might be in a position where growing revenue is important as well. Um, and you can't like ignore that for the sake of uh retention, but if you can do both, um, you should. And sometimes you're at a point where, you know, maybe growth of revenue is not important. Maybe, you know, thinning the herd and paying attention to the clients that most align with your ideal client profile is what makes the most sense to, you know, live a happier life, a more balanced life.

Alisha Esmail 11:03

Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm not saying don't focus on top of funnel sales and new revenue. It's the both, it's the other side of the coin.

Joe Dunaway 11:13

How does uh integrating AI allow them to stop being the chief firefighter and start being the chief visionary?

Alisha Esmail 11:22

Yeah, I love the firefighter analogy, and I'm gonna flip it on you. So, one thing, one analogy that I like to use for retention lately is it's not the kitchen fire or the dumpster fire that we often talk about is like what should get your attention. Retention is like the leak in your basement, and you don't notice it until it's too late and it's caused a ton of damage.

Speaker 3 11:45

Right.

Alisha Esmail 11:46

And then you're calling in a bunch of people for help, right? And you're calling the insurance company. I would say, wait, what I now I got distracted. Sorry, what was your question, Joe?

Joe Dunaway 11:56

Yeah. So how do you go from how does AI help you uh stop being the chief plumbing master and start being the chief visionary?

Alisha Esmail 12:07

I love that you changed that. Thank you. So the way that AI helps with this is it takes all of the really time-consuming and manual detailed work and does it in moments for you, right? So cross-referencing all this data from multiple platforms would take someone hours and days and weeks. And then there's the, you know, the human errors that can happen with doing that and the evaluation piece, not to mention how labor-intensive that would be. With AI, it can do all of that for you as long as it's trained well, because sometimes AI can hallucinate and make stuff up. So you got to make sure your systems are on lock. But if they are, it frees up all of that time and all of that labor so that you can focus on growing the business, being that chief visionary that you mentioned. I always say this most people's genius is not in writing an email.

Joe Dunaway 13:07

Right. Right. Uh, it's it's an art, no doubt about it. Um, and especially if you're checking in on people and just making sure. I mean, and it's not just checking in on people, right? Sometimes it's like, like I know there's clients that, you know, I'm probably thinking of one or two clients, or I'm not thinking of them, but there are probably a few that needed work done that I'm kind of waiting on them to say something, but also maybe I forgot that I that they wanted something done. So, you know, there's opportunities for additional revenue there to solve those problems. So it's not always just, you know, uh managing relationships, it's all also, you know, it's a it's a revenue moment for you and it's a it's an opportunity to provide value and solutions to those clients that you may have forgot about. So it's good to have AI sort through all that stuff and kind of keep you organized for guys like me, ADHD, like it's it's a must.

Alisha Esmail 14:04

So absolutely. And it's it's like going from playing defense to being proactive with your clients.

Joe Dunaway 14:10

100%.

Alisha Esmail 14:12

So I'll share this as well, real quick. Um, there's this other part to latch that I didn't realize when I started the company. So not only are we able to help know exactly where your clients are at on any given day and help you stay in touch with them, know the right moments to ask for that referral or upgrade. The other side is the data analytics. And so we're able to surface other things that are happening in your business. If clients are complaining or asking questions around one specific thing, we start trending that. If employees are maybe dropping the ball in certain areas, Latch starts trending that and showing you where the training gaps might be for your staff. And we're seeing a lot of extra value add that's in this data that's already there. But because it hasn't been surfaced in the same way, you might not know it's happening in your business.

Joe Dunaway 15:08

Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. I want to talk about the five tanks frameworks now, though. I I it's very interesting and it's it's very similar to our four pillars of faith, family, fitness, finance. You created the five tanks, which is mental, emotional, physical, relationship, relational, and spiritual, specifically for founders who want to perform at full tilt. In the fitness and physical pillar, how do you personally keep your own tank full when the business is demanding 100% of your energy?

Alisha Esmail 15:45

It always comes back to being intentional. And I'm not gonna lie, even starting latch, I've had to refocus on that because there are some days where I've dropped the ball on that and let my tank get low. But what I do is I actually started weight training this last year, so that's been fun. You know, I'm I'm a petite person, so I was always I was always a little intimidated by it, but it's it's been really fun and I've gotten stronger, so that's cool. Uh, I focus on sleep because I think that's one thing most founders let go first is like sleep, movement, and eating healthy. But how can we perform and be business athletes essentially if we're not giving our body what we need? And so movement is kind of a daily non-negotiable for me now.

Joe Dunaway 16:34

Yeah, and it should be. Um, and I and I get it. We go through seasons and we put more on our plate. Um, but we got to punch up and uh, you know, get back to what has brought us this level of success. And I really do believe that the the fitness piece is it really is non-negotiable. And when you see it drop off, you feel it. You feel it in your day, you feel it in your sleep. So I'm glad you're you know more intentional in bringing that back into the loop for yourself. Um, let's go into the the family uh uh pillar. In the family and relational pillar, how do you set boundaries between a high growth needs of a tech startup and your personal life?

Alisha Esmail 17:19

It's another one that's it's a bit of I would say I don't really believe in balance because I think balance is a bit of a myth, but I do believe in harmony. And so sometimes my family knows I need to work a little later some days, but then where am I giving them more time on another day? Because I think the biggest thing, and you probably relate to this, is what's the point of building something big and something impactful for the rest of the world if you don't have those that you love at the dinner table with you at the end of the day. And so for me, it's it has always been a struggle because building a tech company is not easy by any means. Or building my last company, it's very demanding. Um so what I try to do is I always take Sundays off. That's kind of like my my day off. And then what I'm trying to get better at is taking more breaks throughout the week so that I can be more intentional with my family.

Joe Dunaway 18:24

Good. And then how does a founder remain present when their mind is constantly on the next system to build?

Alisha Esmail 18:33

That is the golden question, Joe. I feel like every time I talk about this on LinkedIn, it blows up because it's so relatable. You know, for me, this is what I do. So in the morning, I wake up. Um, if I have if I'm going to the gym for my training, then I'm doing that, or I'm working out at home, um, I jump into my journal, I draw out these five tanks. And mentally, sometimes what I need is a break from work. So for me, ironically, fitness is one of those things. Like if I go on a hike or if I'm surfing, if I'm doing something that gets my mind out of the work zone, that's what really resets me. It's more so remembering to do it, which is why I do the five tanks exercise. And if that mental or emotional tank is low, that's where I know I need to force myself to take a break, no matter what the cost business wise.

Joe Dunaway 19:30

Yeah, 100%. And I and I just want to go back to like there is like this, like when we talk about purpose driven, you talk about that when you talk about like your business and your background and your journey. Being purpose-driven to me is you know, you're doing something for other like it's it's it's more than you, it's bigger than you. So yeah, having family, parents, kids, spouses, like if you're doing it for those reasons, right, you still gotta be present with them as well, right? You gotta remind yourself like who you're doing it for, right? You get caught up in I'm doing it for them, but then I'm doing the thing, but then you gotta kind of reel yourself back and remember to be present with them. And, you know, like I said before we jumped on, like just doing a total shut off, you know, this weekend. I don't do it often, um, but you know, really shutting things off and uh the work will be there when I when we get back, right? And that break in the action uh allows me to recover um and show back up with renewed energy um the next work day. So uh really good, really good um advice there. Uh let's jump into the faith pillar now. You talk about entrepreneurship as a way to solve the world's biggest problems. Where does the faith or spiritual foundation anchor you when the data points are confusing or the growth feels overwhelming?

Alisha Esmail 21:06

Yeah, my faith journey is a whole nother story, but it's uh it's always been a big part of my life. And even recently, I had a conversation this last week, and I'll be honest with you, Joe. And I I called one of my founder friends and asked them to pray for me because I was just feeling so underwater. And it's not something I do often because I, you know, I'm the type of founder that just figures it out, gets stuff done. Um, but what I'm relearning, I should say, in this season is is not relying on my own strength. And I think part of being a really strong founder sometimes gets in my own way of I need to make it happen, I need to figure it out, instead of doing what I can do and trusting, like just trusting about the things I can't control.

Joe Dunaway 21:59

Yeah. Um, there's a lot of strength in letting go of control and just obviously not giving up, you know, taking action. But, you know, when you know bad things happen and we don't always know why. Um, but we do know that there's always a lesson to be learned from there. And that's why I really like the the extreme ownership of like when things go bad, like what could I have done better? What's the lesson here, right? Um, and that's the kind of attitude I bring into our team and with our clients is like, you know, what could I have done better? Um, but sometimes there isn't something, and you just gotta kind of just roll with the punches and know that at some point you will find out, maybe it's a year from now, maybe longer, that you're like, oh, you're gonna look back on that and be like, that's exactly why I had to go through that. And there's something really liberating about that mindset shift because you know, the Bible talks about, you know, what good is stressing out going that that anxiety gonna do for you? It's not gonna do anything good for you, right? That worry is not gonna help you. Um, it's it's it's important to be concerned, but you know, don't let it, don't let it eat away inside. So um, yeah, faith and our spirituality just so important if you can really harness it. Um, how does uh a purpose-driven mission change the way you handle business adversity?

Alisha Esmail 23:29

It kind of goes back to what you mentioned earlier a few minutes ago of we're doing it for other people. So when I with Road, it was all about the farmers and helping move coffee farmers out of poverty into independence and freedom and empowering them, you know, through the micro loans. Because I don't know if you know this, but most coffee farmers, if they want to go get a small loan, they're paying between 35 and 70 percent interest rates.

Joe Dunaway 23:53

Oh, it's gross.

Alisha Esmail 23:54

Yeah, it is, it is gross. So, you know, our micro loan uh program um offers loans at just 7% because we still want to help, you know, five to seven percent. We still want to help them grow and learn, and it's not a handout, it's a hand up. So they're learning business skills at the same time. So for me, impact has always been at the heart of everything I've done from international development to the road coffee and now to latch, where I get to work with founders and business owners in helping them compound their growth. And that's the part that's important to me is like it's not it's not about me, it's about them. And I think the thing that really motivates me in this is I see so many founders and business owners work so hard and they're sacrificing time with their family, they're sacrificing their mental, their mental health and their sleep, and their tanks are running low, and they're leaking revenue, and so they're not hitting those goals and building the company they really want. And if we can help support them in that, I think that's a beautiful mission.

Joe Dunaway 25:01

Yeah, and and that's really what it's all about. We're all connected, it's all a giant network, and what happens here to affects somebody over there. And um, if we can just help people, like I love that you guys um help out with those micro loans uh with your business partners and and help them live uh a life worth living. And then, you know, continuing to help people on the AI side and help them plug those holes that are, you know, causing them to sink. It really is all about helping other people. And I think anybody who can adopt that mindset um are just gonna live a more fruitful life. Um, and honestly, I think what goes around comes around. Like that type of mentality is gonna come back to to help you and will help your business, your brand, your reputation, all that stuff. So yeah, very well said. All right, we're at the the the exciting rapid fire uh portion of this podcast. So we're gonna go through the next three questions um and uh just what what comes to mind. So the first question is is uh what is one piece of busy work founders need to automate immediately?

Alisha Esmail 26:14

Filtering their inbox.

Joe Dunaway 26:16

1000%. Yeah.

Alisha Esmail 26:18

There's probably only like uh, you know, under 10% of the emails you get you actually need to respond to.

Joe Dunaway 26:24

Yeah, 1000%. Yep. What is the common lie founders tell themselves about scaling?

Alisha Esmail 26:33

They have to do everything themselves and other people won't be able to do it as good as them.

Joe Dunaway 26:37

Oh yeah. 8020. Uh we some we speak internally about Vici also being uh another word for victory. What does Vici victory look like for Alicia Ashmel in 2026?

Alisha Esmail 26:58

It's living a life where my tanks are full and I'm having fun building and the company's doing well, and I'm spending a little more time on the harmony, doing the things I love and not just building a company.

Joe Dunaway 27:14

Yeah, you are. I love that for you. Awesome. All right. So just to recap, AI isn't meant to bury you in tools, it's meant to buy back your time. Retention is the highest form of profit, and sustainable leadership is the only way to reach the finish line. If you're looking, if you're scaling a service brand and want to stop the silent churn, check out yourLatch.com and follow Alicia on LinkedIn and Instagram. Her handles are in the show notes, uh, but she's on Instagram and she's on LinkedIn uh at Alicia Eschmail and then also the website yourlatch.com. Alicia, anything you want to leave our audience with before we take off?

Alisha Esmail 28:00

Yeah, I actually have a gift for your audience. So if they uh DM me on LinkedIn or Instagram churn, I will send them a churn calculator and they can figure out what their true churn rate is at and what their revenue ceiling is at.

Joe Dunaway 28:15

Beautiful. All right, we'll make sure we get that out to them as well. All right, for now, scale that scale that works, automate what doesn't, and keep your tanks full. We'll see you on the next episode of the Vici Code. Thanks for tuning in to the VICI Code, where the underdogs rise and the numbers finally make sense. If today's story hit home, share it. And remember, faith fuels a fight, and your comeback is already in progress.